How Gusto’s CTO uses Claude Code to ship like a startup
Eddie Kim is the co-founder and CTO of the payroll and HR platform Gusto, which just crossed $1 billion in revenue and serves more than 500,000 small businesses. Recently he did something most CTOs don’t: he went back to writing code. With three other engineers and one designer, Eddie built Gusto Cofounder, a net-new AI product, from zero code to a tier-one launch in 10 weeks. He walks through how that team actually worked, why they threw out nearly every process, and how anyone can copy the approach. *What you’ll learn:* 1. The trash-can method: how to write, review, and delete a full PR as a product decision instead of a planning doc 2. The two-tool agent stack behind Gusto Cofounder 3. The exact “perma-Zoom” setup that replaced standups, retros, and Slack threads for 10 weeks 4. How a designer with no engineering background hit the 94th percentile for shipping code 5. The eval-first workflow Eddie uses to fix real customer bugs with Claude Code 6. How a non-technical leader can prototype an idea to win buy-in, then carry it all the way to production-quality code *Brought to you by:* Magic Patterns—Prototypes that look like your product: https://magicpatterns.com/howiai Jira Product Discovery—Prioritize with insights, build with confidence: https://atlassian.com/howiai *In this episode, we cover:* (00:00) Intro: five people, 10 weeks (02:38) The origins of Cofounder (08:32) Inside the 10-week build process (12:50) Building with no PMs (14:38) The “trash can” method (17:15) The stack architecture (19:10) Shipping to production from day one (22:03) How a designer became a top engineer (29:05) Demo: Cofounder over text and Slack (31:45) Demo: running a real payroll (36:26) Live coding with evals in Claude Code (39:39) Recap: prototype, small team, permission (43:17) Lightning round (48:44) Where to find Eddie and Cofounder *Blog and detailed workflow walkthroughs from this episode:* How Gusto Built a New Product Line in 10 Weeks with Claude Code, No Jira, and No Docs: https://www.chatprd.ai/how-i-ai/how-gusto-built-a-new-product-line-in-10-weeks-with-claude-code-no-jira-and-no-docs ↳ How to Build a New AI Product in 10 Weeks Using the 'No-Process' Method: https://www.chatprd.ai/how-i-ai/workflows/how-to-build-a-new-ai-product-in-10-weeks-using-the-no-process-method ↳ How to Fix Bugs Using an AI-Powered Test-Driven Development (TDD) Workflow: https://www.chatprd.ai/how-i-ai/workflows/how-to-fix-bugs-using-an-ai-powered-test-driven-development-tdd-workflowNOTES *Tools referenced:* • Gusto Cofounder (early access/waitlist): https://gusto.com/cofounder • Claude Code (Anthropic): https://claude.ai/code • Cloudflare Workers: https://workers.cloudflare.com/ • Vercel AI SDK: https://sdk.vercel.ai/ • DX (engineering analytics): https://getdx.com/ • Wispr Flow (voice-to-text): https://wisprflow.ai • OpenClaw: https://openclaw.ai/ *Other references:* • Gusto (the main product, “Gusto Classic”): https://gusto.com • Mindbody (referenced as customer data source): https://www.mindbodyonline.com/ *Where to find Eddie Kim:* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/edawerd/ *Where to find Claire Vo:* ChatPRD: https://www.chatprd.ai/ Website: https://clairevo.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/clairevo/ X: https://x.com/clairevo _Production and marketing by https://penname.co/._ _For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email jordan@penname.co._
